allow me
Dear George
Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Luigi Funesti-Sordido, founding member of the USSR, the Urbane Society of Sceptical Romantics, a society small in numbers but hopefully not in spirit, and dedicated, not surprisingly, to urbanity, society, scepticism and romance. I've decided, with the authority vested in me, to engage with your reflections on religion, spirituality, marriage, the family and anything else that I find of interest.
So without further ado, let the sparring begin. In an interview with John Cleary back in September 2001, you mentioned a book by Rodney Stark, who proposed apparently that Christianity’s rise within the Roman Empire had a profoundly civilising affect, and that it continues to do so. For example, you’ve pointed out that the most brutal leaders of the twentieth century were militant secularists – Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and so forth.
However, I would want to point out that the infamous inquisition, the crusades of the middle ages, the various anti-jewish pogroms over the centuries, were all the products of Christian religious fervour. These events should be compared with those of the twentieth century not in terms of numbers killed and maimed – the greater numbers of modern times are largely due to the increased efficiency of death-dealing weaponry – but in terms of attitudes of intolerance, hatred, the value of human life. These are very difficult to determine, and I think changes have occurred at different rates in different parts of the world, but I like to think there has been an overall improvement, in terms of tolerance and openness to diversity, brought about more through globalisation and the effects of largely secular education than through religion, in my humble opinion. For example, I think the universal declaration of human rights, a purely secular document, has had a big impact.
The more destructive events and regimes of the twentieth century need to be looked at in more detail. Many of these regimes had or have a cultish, quasi-religious element which is unhealthy. North Korea’s Dear Leader, the cult of the Fuhrer and so forth, these examples of uncritical devotion are disturbing, and I have to say I’m similarly disturbed by the uncritical devotion many people show to the Pope, who after all is a human being with his biases and his weaknesses. This is one of the advantages of democracy – leaders are rarely allowed to get away with putting themselves above the people. The Catholic Church is a very undemocratic institution in this regard.
To conclude, George, your view that Christianity has been a civilising influence, from Roman times to the present day, is questionable in a number of ways. I recall reading Marguerite Yourcenar’s great historical novel, The Memoirs of Hadrian years ago, a well-researched account of a particularly secular and well-governed period in Roman history. I don’t think religion is particularly necessary to a well-regulated, healthy, vibrant society. Look at Japan. More important is a solid foundation of law and respected and representative political institutions. And besides, more important perhaps than whether or not Christianity is a civilising influence is whether or not it is true. The Catholic Church likes to talk about truth, and I think it’s the central issue myself, so I’ll be talking about it, often, in future letters.
Bye for now, and may your god not lead you into too much silliness
your mate, Luigi.
posted by Stewart @ 4:43 PM
2 Comments:
Interesting. I would like to make some counter points though to your argument about Christianity and it's black spots in history.
Briefly, the actions of those people and leaders at that time were not Christian in any way. They were political, selfish, greed motivated, and evil. These activities in no way reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ. They do however reflect the teachings of corrupted leaders.
Yes these things were carried out by the "Church", and were done under the name of Christianity, but these things were not Christian.
Where true Christianity has been accepted and practiced, there has been major changes for the benefit of humankind. Most of the Universities and Hospitals and other such establishments were founded by Christians. At least it's that way in the US. I don't know about Australia, but I do know that it's also true in many other countries.
Where Christianity has been given a chance, the poverty level decreases, education rises, and overall well being rises as well.
If you don't believe me, do some studies on world economies where Christians have been given great leeway.
In America and in Britain, it was Christians who fought against slavery. Yes, many slave owners went to church, but their actions speak other wise as to the validness of their faith in the same way that the actions of church leaders during the middle ages and other times show that they also were not followers of Jesus.
You may say that this is a very convenient argument, but it's the truth. Read the Bible and find out what Jesus taught. It doesn't fit with what these people were doing at all. And thus, they cannot be true followers of Jesus. If they were, these things would not have happened.
With our western civilizations, we have to realize that we have been influenced by Christianity, but that does not make our actions Christian. Take South Africa for instance, strong Church connections, poor Christian values. Many of the people were deceived as to the validness of their faith. It all comes down to what Jesus taught and how we line up with His teachings.
As to your comment about Japan being a good example of not needing religion to be a good society, well, I think you need to do some reading on their history.
Japan has continuously been a murderous country to Korea, China and any one else that they could attack. Many Koreans were forced to fight in the war against America. In fact, they were forced to be kamikaze pilots. Not many people know this.
Japan was a ruthless bloody nation. They committed many inhuman atrocities and were just as bad as the Nazis. It wasn't until the Americans defeated them that things began to change. Sorry, but Japan is a poor example for you to use.
Tibet you say, well, it is a poor country, always was. Where Christianity has been accepted, so came wealth and development. It's just the way it is.
I hope that this all makes sense. Thanks for your thoughts and providing an opportunity to have discussions like this.
Sincerely,
Ken
Thanks Ken for your comments. I know a number of people who benefit greatly from being part of a church-based community, and whose children attend schools run by one Christian denomination or another (with generous government funding). These schools undeniably provide an excellent education and a valuable sense of community, though there are other non-religious schools which also provide this. The point I would make is that Christian belief isn't necessary to the provision of good education or to a sense of community.
Your point that the Crusades, the Inquisition etc etc were not Christian in any way is well taken, but it falls into the trap, it seems to me, of suggesting that all 'good' activities undertaken by Christian individuals or nations were Christian activities, and all 'bad' activities were un-Christian activities. Christianity just becomes a synonym for goodness, with no real explanatory power.
The concept of 'true Christianity' is similar - it just represents an ideal. It reminds me of the leftists who claim that 'true communism' would work, if only it could be practised - but unfortunately human selfishness gets in the way.
It doesn't surprise me that the Churches have founded many hospitals and educational institutions, since over the centuries they've received many generous donations and bequests, not too mention tithes and other income sources. They would have been under pressure to do so - and of course it has been part of their ideology to heal the sick and to improve minds, which is all to the good.
There's absolutely no doubt that societies/nations which have encouraged Christianity have done better on all indicators of well-being. The explanation is obvious, to me. They are open societies. Tolerance of a wide variety of practices, openness to ideas, a spirit of co-operation rather than antagonism, these are the forces that make for a healthy, dynamic society. The part that Christianity plays in all this is open to dispute, and unfortunately it isn't something that can ever be isolated or quantified.
On Japan, I was of course talking about the Japan of today. Australians have very good reason to be aware of Japan's very brutal recent history. Many older Australians will never forgive the Japanese for their war-time atrocities, and the stories of Changi, Singapore, the Burma Railway are very well-known here. I also know about their horrific treatment of the Chinese when they occupied that country in the thirties. Their apparent unwillingness to come to terms with that past is a cause for concern, though many young Japanese people i have taught are aware of this past and ashamed of it.
I believe the Japanese brutality of the past, their complete lack of respect for other cultures, was again due to their lack of openness. They were largely closed to the outside world and this isolation seems to have bred a superiority complex, perhaps fuelled by quasi-religious military delusions.
The fact that Japan is so very different today, without the benefit of Christianity, further indicates that openness is much more of a factor than Christian values in creating a vibrant and well-educated society.
I could write much more, but that's enough for now.
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